TBJA 433 Why You Have to be doing Social Media Advertising, Justin Hartzman

Phoebe: Hello Brand Journalism community. I'm Phoebe Chongchua. Thanks for tuning into the Brand Journalism Advantage Podcast. Here we go with the inside scoop. On today's show, Justin Hartzman. Justin is the co-founder and chief executive officer of Needls. A social media advertising platform for small to mid-size businesses. With the use of it's technology, SMB's are able to create effective and successful social media campaigns.
Now since it's launch in mid-2016, Needls has grown from 0 users on the platform to having managed over three million in ads on social media for it's micro-advertisers. So excited to have you on the show, Justin, because this is a really cool thing. Especially for for what we're talking about. Welcome to the show.
Justin Hartzman: Thank you very much for having me, Phoebe. I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to speaking to you today.
Phoebe: Well, you know, we're talking about why you have to be doing social media advertising. And, yes, the operative word 'have' to be doing is the key phrase there, right? That this is not something that we can ignore anymore. Right, Justin?
Justin Hartzman: That's absolutely the case. Social media advertising has helped to level the playing field. You know, we used to have Google when it came out first with their search engine marketing and optimization on that side, but that's gotten very expensive over the years. So now we're allowing all these small businesses, micro-business or entrepreneurs to come on, have the affordability to do it and help grow their businesses into what they're looking for.
So, we're really excited to be helping so many people do this and offer tons of information to help them to do it themselves or use our platform. So we're just about getting them there. Because we have a mantra at Needls. That's, "We're always here." That everything we do is to help our user, because we know that they are the middle of the economy. Once we help them grow their business they'll have more food on the table to help their kids grow, hire more people and help back the community and bring back taxes. So, it's a full circle. A win-win-win for all of us and we're always looking out for their best interests.
Phoebe: That's so good. Because, you know, that's really exactly it. That this is the backbone of the U.S. and we need to be supporting these brands so that they're able to do it. These small to medium sized business that sometimes think, "Oh, it's too much. I'll put it off until, you know, next year." And then next year rolls around and they're behind. You know? Since television has changed so much ... I was actually having lunch with a friend of mine from TV. A producer friend. And we were talking about how every company is a media company now and how by literally embracing that attitude, publishing your content is one thing, but getting it seen is another. And that's where the social media advertising comes into it.
So, Brand Journalism community, that's where we're heading. We're gonna break it down. We're gonna learn a little bit more about Justin's business and how it might help you. But, just some general Hot Top Tips on how to do social media advertising effectively. But, you know, we kick it off with the ice breaker and I love this one. I can't say that I do this completely, but I can tell you, because I run a site called ThePlantBasedDiet.com, that I'm here with you.
Just writes as his ice breaker that he doesn't do carbs or sugar doing the week. Alright. So, tell me about this. How long have you been doing this and what have you found most effective?
Justin Hartzman: Well, I've been on about five years. Everyone didn't think I'd last a week at it, but it's been about five years now. And it's just totally changed my outlook on eating and helped my health in many different ways. And, for me, I found ... and, you know, we'll bring it back to this ... every entrepreneur or a founder of a business, or, you know, these great names that you hear about, they all have a little bit of crazy. And this is my sort of crazy.
When I get into something I have to stick to it. It is just ... I have the craziest willpower in existence out there. So, if I go for lunch all I'm having is proteins and vegetables. You know, my office is full of great snacks for our staff. We have candies, cereals, chips, cookies, you name it. And if I ever have a cheat day, which is very few of them, I can't even hold myself back. Once I have one I have to have a hundred. So now it's just have none and keep it that way and it's helped me lose a significant amount of weight, get my health back in check, and make me feel better.
But I do feel, I'll tell you this, when I do introduce carbs back into my diet and sugars, on weekends, that my brain just functions at this totally different level. So I'm always trying to find a way to get it to that level without doing those sorta things.
Phoebe: Yeah. That's the absolute truth. It really does impact the brain. Especially carbs. I do primarily a gluten free diet, which doesn't mean that I completely cut out carbs. But I ... you know, I limit it. Because a lot of the gluten free foods just aren't that good. So, I look at it this way that you might as well eat more plant based foods and skip over some of the, you know, the bready, carb type food which they still haven't really mastered how to make great gluten free bread. If you know what I mean? It can be kinda nasty. But, you know, it actually makes me feel a whole lot better to have some protein and high, high consumption of veggies. You know? Just really makes my body run better.
Justin Hartzman: Yeah. I like to say I know what you mean about eating gluten free. But, when I'm not on the diet during the week I definitely am a full gluten diet. So I can't really say I know where you're coming from. Give me the pass, like ... in moderation I'll say give me the pass and give me the pizza, but yeah. I definitely don't go for gluten free options.
Phoebe: Okay. Well, here's my one tip if you ever wanna try gluten free. Because I truly believe, you know, it's a little bit of that crazy. I'm an entrepreneur right there with you. And it's good stuff. If you have a Trader Joe's where you are there's is a gluten free pasta. It's made with egg and it is out of this world. I mean, it's the closest thing I've ever come. Like I said, the bread, they haven't really mastered that. But this pasta is ... you'll ping on me Twitter or something. You'll be like, "That was killer." So, check it out. It's at Trader Joe's.
Justin Hartzman: Pro tip. I'll have to try that out. I'm used to eating, now, red lentil pastas.
Phoebe: Oh, there you go.
Justin Hartzman: It's only made out of lentils. It doesn't do the same thing.
Phoebe: No, I hear ya.
Justin Hartzman: But, if you really want some meat sauce and some pasta it will get by. So that's great to hear. Thank you.
Phoebe: You got it. Alright. Well, I've got this quote for you that I want you to digest and tell me what you think about it. It goes like this. "Successful companies in social media function more like entertainment companies, publishers, or party planners than as traditional advertisers." That's Erik Qualman. What do you think of that?
Justin Hartzman: I think that's true. And I don't know when that quote was from, but I think the tides are changing a little bit on that. You know, and I was gonna speak to this earlier, but things have changed a lot working with social media. Building content and building an audience has become completely different game to to him. The algorithm changed about two or three weeks ago now, where posting to your companies webpage or a fan page on Facebook is no longer broadcast in the same way that it was previously.
So, paid advertising's really the movement that we're going toward to level that playing field for everybody. They don't have the [inaudible] type people and capturing all of these audiences by crazy growth and virality. So, it's interesting. I like that quote. It does make sense, but I do think times are changing on the social ...
When we were talking about Facebook, it's generally the biggest player in this space when it comes to advertising and marketing. And then we have Instagram, which is also owned by them and then down the line Twitter, which is not as effective, we've seen across the board, as the other ones out there. So, while true, I think it is changing.
Phoebe: Give us a success quote or a tip that you want to leave with our community.
Justin Hartzman: I think that when I look at myself and I digest what I've done in my career, which has been a lot of fun even at my young age, that ... it's two simple words and I have them right here on the wall behind me. You guys can't see that, but it says, "Be useful."
And that's it. There's nothing more than that. Just be useful in everything that you're doing. In the way that you wanna conduct your life. Every time that you are useful, you know, more comes back to you than you give it out. So, you can do that towards, if it's your customers. Or if it's your team members. Or if it's your family. Being useful allows you to give back in a way that's gonna come back to you in tenfold.
So, I really like that one. And there's a second one that I really stand behind. And as an entrepreneur, hopefully talking a lot to other entrepreneurs out there, is that the best things in life come on the other side of fear. You know, take that step. Even if it's scary. If you're thinking about that side hustle that you've been doing and turning it into a full time gig, you know, social media helps level that playing field, again, to go out there and make something big. But just take that step. Don't worry about it. Look at, you know, why you should do something. Not why you shouldn't.
Phoebe: Those are great. I especially love the last one. The best things in life come on the other side of fear. Because so often fear is exactly what creates, you know, paralysis and just stops us from doing what we want to do. And a lot of people miss out because they're, you know, they're paralyzed.
Justin Hartzman: Absolutely. You wanna know who said that quote, too? You won't suspect who it is. If you guessed you would never guess. Will Smith. And I think it makes a lot of sense.
Phoebe: Wow. Yes. Right. Right. Love it. Well, I want you to share a little bit about your backstory. Because we got into just a tad of it when we talked about Needls and we're gonna go into that Brand Journalism community when we talk about why you have to be doing social media advertising and his business and how it can possibly help, as well as Top Tips in general on that.
But, back up the story just a little bit. Fill in any blanks and then take us to a moment in time that's considered your career highlight. That proudest moment. Tell us that story.
Justin Hartzman: I don't know. There's been so many. But, I'll take you through my journey as quickly as I can here, 'cause I think it's important to understand how I got to where I am today. So, my family has always been entrepreneurial and I've always been a misfit. Starting at eight, nine years old I was working at family, local stores. You know, we sold outdoor goods. Like, tents and backpacks and winter jackets and stuff like that. And I really spent a long time mastering, being at the best seller at backpacks that anyone could find. And exceeding the companies goals and my own goals there.
So, always was an entrepreneurial spirit working there, but after that I really, you know, internet started to come up while around age ten. And I got really excited about it. I was the first one to have a computer that I built myself. I'd have access, you know, that 14.4 modem. You know, that dial up that everyone remembers back in the day. And as websites were coming up I was very interested in having a voice and getting out there and that this was a method to get to the world. Not just my local community. How could we extend sales throughout?
So, actually really early on in my career I started a website with a good buddy of mine who I went to camp as a child with. [inaudible]. That will be a reoccurring theme as I go through the story. And we created a website called Rudejoke.com. And Rudejoke was exactly that. You know, funny jokes you'd see now. Memes. All that sort of stuff. Stuff that users created themselves and we gave them a place to put it up for other people to look at it.
And this website, and I actually have it right beside me here, in 1999 we got featured as the website of the year in Maxim Magazine. And we went from, you know, hundreds of thousands of people a month looking at our website to millions a day. So we really got our first taste of success really early on. And, you know, as a 12, 13 year old child, you're making 30, 40, $50,000 a month, people were like, "What the heck is going on here?"
Our parents thought we were doing crazy things. They had no idea what was going on here. But we were just running a website, being, you know, at the day web masters. That was the name that you wanted to be. I was a web master. And we really did a good job, but what happened then was the internet bust happened a few years into that and all the publishers who were paying us all this money, they were starting to go belly up because of what happened.
And they started to come after us. They realized that we weren't 18 years old and we were, you know, signing contracts with them. But, lo and behold, our parents did sign on our behalf. They had nothing to come after and they were going belly up. They couldn't really follow up with us to get the money and we earned it naturally. So that was our first forte into, you know, make sure you're doing things right and letting your parents know what's going on as a young child. And preparing, you know, your legal entities in the correct way.
So that was really fun and after that my partner and I, we went in different directions. And I started up with another buddy of mine where we sold these amazing TechnoMarine Pave watches on Ebay. And we were one of the largest Ebay sellers in their jewelry category. And we helped them really build. You know, we consulted with them how to sell jewelry via a website and that was an awesome opportunity til that dried up as well. We had a really good opportunity where we got the watches at 25% off wholesale by knowing the gentleman who owned the factory and eventually they asked us to ... well, didn't ask us. They said, "We can't sell them to you anymore."
So after that I got into the business of ... I'm still young. We're talking 16 years old here. 17 years old. Of first player shooter games out there. So we really got into that. It was the big craze at the time. And I'm always looking, you know, this is fun. I like playing it, but how can we make money from it? So what I did was I created a community [inaudible] social media existed and I created a bulletin board system and a forum. And what I did was we hosted these games for people that they played organized games on servers and they'd pay us to do that.
And that went very well until I went off to University where I kind of forgot about all this. I start college, I forgot about all of this stuff and realized there's other things in the world, like learning and expanding my horizons and, you know, meeting my future wife-to-be I hoped at that time and forgot about it.
And I came out and went to go into what my family's business was, which was real estate in a small city outside of Toronto, Canada. And I went to do what they did here in Toronto and I just found that it was not the thing for me. Creating a name for myself, you know, bidding against big conglomerates on parcels of land where they really wanted it. You know, [inaudible] would come to your door. As a young kid you're like, "What the heck. I'm just trying to grow a business here."
So it just didn't work out very well for me. So what I did was I reached out to my co-founder at Needls now. One of them, Jeremy. Jeremy and I met when we were six years old at camp in East Coast of Canada. And he was part of the jewelry business but we hadn't done anything for a little while. And I reached out to him and I said, "You know, I've been talking to a buddy of mine and he said that social media ... " Which we had no idea what that was, "was gonna be the biggest thing and we should get into it." And he goes, "I have no idea what you're talking about." I said, "Don't worry. Just send me $5,000. I've never steered you wrong previously. Just do this." You know?
He's like, "Okay. Okay. I'll send you the money." So he sends me the money. It gets there the next day. He says, "Okay. What are we doing?" I say, "I talked to this guy and he's building something. And he told me it's called social media ... social network. I can't find what that is and he deleted me after he told me."
Said, "Okay. Well I'll try to contact him. He's a mutual friend." It ended up being Tom from Myspace and he just said, you know, eventually told us that Myspace was what he was talking about and he gave us the opportunity to be the guys who created the content for everyone's Myspace profile. And, this is like our career highlight right now. Getting involved in something really early as the periphery, so not being the network itself at the time, but being the pick and axis for it. Providing the pieces of content that all one wanted, but couldn't get their hands on.
So we were the guys who produced the, you know, visitor maps to show where all your friends were from, the kitty cat that fell from the sky, the background pictures that you wanted to customize your profile. And quickly, within three months, we grew that from the nothing to a business that was doing almost a million dollars a month and we sold that very quickly to a company in Hawaii three months into doing this. And then instead of being ...
Phoebe: Wow. So, just ... this was for Myspace and just three months into creating this you sold it?
Justin Hartzman: That's correct. And everyone thought, you know, "Oh. You're gonna go out and buy a fancy car and a new condo." And all this sort of stuff in Toronto and instead of that, what we did was we took that money and we bought all of our competitors who saw what we were doing. 'Cause Myspace was growing so quickly, there were so ... you know, green pastures out there or blue sky opportunities. People were popping up being competitors all the time so we bought all these little guys. And because we had the advantage and knowledge of how to use advertisers from young ages and knowing them and growing up with them we had much better rates than other people would get out there.
Especially through Yahoo Publisher Network which doesn't exist any longer, but that was the competitive Google Adwords. And so we buy them on Google Adwords profits, put our Yahoo Publisher Network onto it and saw a ten times lift right out of the gate. So you package them all up, roll them up, kind of like a little private equity firm would do. Which we didn't even know what that was at that time. And then nine months later we sold all of that as a package again.
So we had two sales within our first year of getting into business outside of college and it was really ... that was the highlight to get everything kicking and going in the right direction for us as we continue to move forward.
Phoebe: I love it. Yeah. I love it. Alright. Well, so much good stuff. We could keep going and going but we have to, in the essence of time, move on. So I gotta have you, just briefly, share the story about when it didn't work. Just tell us a quick story about what happened and what you learned from it.
Justin Hartzman: Yep. So, a few years later, what didn't work for us ... we knew how to sell businesses and we knew how to create businesses. So we started a company called wesellyoursite.com where we were selling other people's businesses for them. It was really excellent. But that was a service based business and we wanted to get into producing something online again. And this was when aggregation was becoming really popular in 2006, 2007.
So things like Kayak.com for travel were coming out. Trivago for hotels. And we knew we wanted to create something in the secondary ticketing market. So it was called Ticketflow.com and what it was, you could come to our site and we aggregated tickets for sports games, concerts, all that sort of stuff into one spot and show you the cheapest place to buy it.
But at that time data was very different. It was expensive, it was clunky and there was nothing that was all unified into one source. So we had to solve that problem and that problem was very difficult to solve. So the fact that taking it ... that, a long time to solve that problem. That people really didn't understand you can buy tickets anywhere else besides Ticketmaster or Ebay or StubHub and there was these hundreds of other places. We had to educate the market and we were just under capitalized at that time.
So a big piece that we took away from that was you cannot be under capitalized for any position that you wanna go into, because it's gonna take al to longer. It's gonna be a lot harder than you ever anticipated and we live by those rules today.
Phoebe: Yeah. Really good point. You just can't compete when you're under capitalized like that. You have to have ... it sounds like it was a great idea, but the capital wasn't there and you had such a big learning curve that the audience would have to go through before they would begin to even know to come to your website.
Justin Hartzman: Yeah. That's exactly right. And someone else at the same time, they're a big player now doing hundreds of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, started at the same time. We were good friends and they had enough capital to make it work. So it's exactly a point and case of why you have to have that. That was SeatGeek.com and they're doing a great job today. So I really enjoy seeing them grow as a company.
Phoebe: Let's move into our Top Tips section. We're talking about why you have to be doing social media advertising. So I'm gonna have you just break it down for us. Give us your top tips on this and, you know, if someone's starting out, let's say from scratch and they're not doing it ... and, of course, this is different on ever platform, but give us the general overview. What do we need to do to get into social media advertising?
Justin Hartzman: Yeah. Well, I think we mentioned it a little bit before that you have to be doing the advertising aspect of it because the algorithms are changing at Facebook and at Instagram where the natural content is no longer being pushed off. So know that you have to do it, as per your point. But here's some points that I think are really important, whether you use a platform like Needls or not, this is what you should be thinking about.
Always look natural. You know, if you make these over produced ads that you spend lots of time on the video and thinking about the story lines, you don't know if that's gonna work. And emotion doesn't sell online. It's data that will help you sell online. So those are two important pieces. Make it look like kitty cats and butterflies and don't be emotional about it. Use the data to drive your decisions.
So do lots and lots of testing and be part of the community that talks about this all the time. Go join the Facebook groups. You know, Facebook Ad Buyers and there's a bunch like that out there where you have people like yourself who wanna learn, who wanna spend the time doing so and they share tips and tricks and the ways to do it. So I think that's a really good place to educate yourself while making sure that you look natural, you're not emotional and you are testing lots and using the data to help you make those decisions.
Also, the last piece that I thinks super important, is anything that you can to automate that process, do so. And that's who we are at Needls, to help you automate, because we believe that you should be spending the time doing what you do best. Which, if you're a plumber, that's plumbing. If you're baking cakes for a wedding, it's baking cakes for a wedding. Let the people out there who can help you to do it in a really good way do it as long as it's affordable and attainable to you at the same time. And we're really trying to help do that.
Phoebe: So I wanna get into a little bit of that. But first, I want you to go back to emotion doesn't sell online. And that puzzled me a little bit. So explain what you mean by that. You don't mean to say that an ad that's emotional won't sell, do you?
Justin Hartzman: No.
Phoebe: Explain what you mean.
Justin Hartzman: No, it's good. Thanks for diving into that. That's not what I mean at all. What I mean is an ad that you create or you think might work well for you, you're using emotional ... "Oh. I don't like the colors there. I don't like the place." Being emotional about your decisions isn't what's gonna drive sells from that.
Phoebe: Got it.
Justin Hartzman: Again, using the data. You know, we see on Needls platform alone, sometimes ads that have misspellings in them 'cause someone didn't check it over performs anywhere from 10 to 30% better than the same ad without the correct spelling. It gets people to notice it more, it stand outs to them and they click on it. So, again, use the data. I'm not recommending spell things wrong, but use the data to make those decisions. Don't use emotion to make those decisions. [crosstalk].
Phoebe: Got it. I love that. And I'm glad we clarified that, because I was like, "Wait a sec." You know? But that's so true. In other words, just don't be so attached to your own work. Be able to modify, use the data to drive it, but certainly things that are emotional will help you as long as you're getting the support that you see in the data. So, good point.
Alright. Now, briefly, just share with us how does it work if someone comes to Needls and they want to automate this process. I mean, what are we talking about here? Take us through that step.
Justin Hartzman: Yeah. So Needls, very simply, we are ... again, I'll say it again. We are leveling the playing field. We wanna make this super simple for you. So in six questions we understand who are, who you wanna sell to, and what it is that you are selling. And then we create for you 50 to 500 ads in real time and deliver them to the network.
So, again, not emotional. We ask you to give us stuff, again, if you bake a cake for weddings and you make these beautiful things, don't have this professional photographer come in and take pictures of it. Take a picture of the steps of you doing that or the end product of you standing beside your work. That works really well. And we'll take all these ads ... like I said, 50 to 500, so that we can test it.
The data gets us to see which ones are working better. Which headlines and titles with what pictures. And then where we stand out and do something completely different than exists if you did it yourself or you went to a typical digital agency. You know, we're the first robo agency that exists online, which [inaudible] is we target in a completely different way.
While we use the tools, the networks allows us to have interest base targeting. We also use artificial intelligence to understand who needs your product or service when they need it. So, simply put, when someone say, "Oh, shoot. My tooth hurts. What do I do?" We understand that they have a toothache or a tooth problem, they need to see a dentist. And we show them an ad for a dentist in real time, or as real time as we possibly can.
'Cause we also trace them clicking on that ad, becoming a new customer or patient for that dentist. You know, everyone asks me usually now, "Well what does this work best for." The answer is it works amazingly in every category. You know, we're industry agnostic and location agnostic. It's often better to ask me, "What doesn't it work for?" And I'll give you just a funny tidbit. It does not work well for underwater welding. We can never find anyone talking about a need for that anywhere.
Phoebe: Alright. Well, so good. Brand Journalism community, if you wanna check it out you know that it'll all be online at Thinklikeajournalist.com under Justin's show notes page. So you'll find it there. We've gotta move on, so here's the scenario. You've been hired to help an ailing company. It's about to financially collapse. It's reputations shot. You have a month, Justin, a thousand dollar budget, a smart phone and a laptop. How do you begin to turn this company around?
Justin Hartzman: What I would do is simply look at the past list of customers and start calling them. And really understanding what was working and what wasn't working and, more importantly, was the what wasn't working. And then work on that. You know, how do we fix it? How do we change it? And ask them the question, coming out of this phone call, saying, "Okay. If that's fixed would you be a customer again?" And if they said yes try to get them to to give a deposit right there. That time. So when it's fixed I'm gonna come back to you. This is the support to get me there. And then making those changes, coming back, and seeing if they stick as a customer for the long term. I think that's the best way to do it. Understanding the issue, iterating on it, using the lean approach to continue to make that product better and serve those people properly.
Phoebe: What is one piece of technology, video, multi-media equipment or an app that you just can't live without?
Justin Hartzman: Generic answer is my cell phone. And my iPhone and the AirPods that I'm using right now. You know, I use the phone. I like to speak to people. I don't find that, you know, often to my last information that I gave you, there's no emotion in an email or a text message. I like to show that emotion and have that conversation in person. So it's a super important piece to my every day.
Phoebe: Name one book, documentary, blog, podcast, or an internet channel that you'd like to recommend.
Justin Hartzman: I hate to do this on another podcast, but I definitely recommend Mixergy from Andrew Warner. As a start up entrepreneur, I am ... you know, I've been around the block. You heard a little bit of my story. I didn't get to finish it there. But, I learn things every day from entrepreneurs like myself starting out or even more advanced than what we are. I really, really recommend that. It's Mixergy from Andrew Warner.
Phoebe: Oh, hey. The more podcasts we learn about the better. Expert predictions. Year is 2025. So, let's take it from the vantage point of social media advertising. Give us some insight to where you think it's gonna be about 2025 and leave us with a competitive advantage. What advice do you have?
Justin Hartzman: So I think that that in 2025, that it's all gonna be conversational. I have a gentleman named Chris who just joined our team and he came here about six months ago, because of what we were doing. And this is vision that we've both had since our first initial meeting. You'll be able to go into a phone booth or sit at your home in front of your TV and you have your Alexa there or your HomePod or your GoogleHome. You'll be able to talk to a screen and go through, you know, "Here's my website. Here's my product that I wanna sell. Here's the way I'm doing it."
And through this conversation we'll be gathering all the data through artificial intelligence we'll be able to create the perfect campaign for this person all the way from their ad creation, all the way down to the sales funnel. And I really believe that's what we're going to see. That it's gonna be totally automated. It's gonna be through conversations. Just talking things out, we're gonna understand them very well and be able to produce high functioning while producing our [inaudible] positive campaigns for people through social media. And I think that there's gonna be a huge cluster during that time for also person to person conversation. Less of this internet text message based business that we see today. That's where I think we'll be.
Phoebe: And we all like to have a little bit of fun, so leave us with one place to wine, dine, and play. What's your recommendation?
Justin Hartzman: Wine, dine, and play. I like, usually what I like to do with my family. I like to go to the beach after going, whether it's Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, making a picnic. Go down, relaxing, seeing the water roll in and enjoying a nice meal with my family.
Phoebe: Thank you so much, Justin. This has been great. Love what you've shared with us. Brand Journalism community, again, everything in the show notes at Thinklikeajournalist.com, including how to reach out to Justin and check out his company Needls. Thank you for being on the The Brand Journalism Advantage.
Justin Hartzman: My pleasure. Thanks for having me, again, today.